Curse

sinican · Sep 27, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Personally I dont care how any of you monks act... because 9 outa 10 the henchis perform better than any of you...

it used to be that the henchis where the ones over extending... now over half of you that play monks believe your the group dictator... and the reality is you end up overextending and unable to keep up in the multitude of fedex missions...

I dislike bossy and greater than thou monks as much as i hate rushing assassins and wammos that spam they are tanks...

chances are of corse those of you posting here probably arent the monks im talking about... so forgive me for being blunt...

I never rely completely on a monk myself and most likely Im not one of those players you have to teach how to play the agro game... but ive definately had my fair share of Monk"eys"

perhaps you just need to form your own groups.... id be happy with that personally, a monk that is the leader of a group gets the automatic opinion from me that they are competent at their profession...

but really we could go on bitching about every profession or about pugs but again most of the guides that would assist these inexperienced players never get read by them in the first place... sad but true... most of us forum junkies here know the game well and all this info really doesnt get to the peeps who need it most

ramma77 · Sep 27, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

i don't heal unless they are under 50%-60% anyways.

i know how hard monking can be so if i'm in a PuG or even with guildies and notice someone standing in maelstrom or whatever i will say something.

Priest Of Sin · Sep 27, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Personally, my characters don't usually need monks unless the shit really hits the fan. On my necro i bring along Taste Of Death, on my warrior he's constantly under dolyak sig+watch yourself+a stance, and on my mesmer i just stay the hell out of the fight. On my ranger i pull, so I kinda have to be up front. But when I played with my monk, I would just stop healing the stupid ele that took aggro constanty. A few accidents is forgiveable, but I don't want a 60 armor tank walking around. And when they complained that i couldn't keep them healed, I said "Then dont take so much damage!". If they left, that was one less burden.

Monks, though they tend to be stuck up, are only like that becuase the GAME made them that way. You need at LEAST one warrior tank, an Ele nuker (or other), a Necro (MM, curses, what-haveyou), and an interrupt (mesmer/ranger). But on most of the harder missions, you NEED 2-3 monks. You dont NEED as many as any other class but monks. But they need to keep in mind that there are stupid monks as well, although it doesn't take half a brain to heal someone.

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 28, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I play my monk more than any of my other characters and I have NEVER purposely let someone die. If a ranger or caster stays in mele range too much I ask them to stay back. If a warrior is overaggroing I let him know.

I don't heal the offending team member at the expense of other players , but that's not the same as "letting" them die. If it's within a monks ability to save a player from dying without jeapordizing the team, and he doesn't, then he isn't a real monk.

I have never been more outraged in this game than when playing a SS Nec, I accidentally went into aggro range of some giants in THK right after a monk called "my energy is 15 out of 45."

The giants did giant stomp and knocked me down and started attacking me. My health was steadily dropping and I was waiting to be bailed out when I got a whisper, "just making a point" from the monk. Then I died.

I didn't see the monk call his energy and that was the only time I had made a mistake in the mission. The monk had the energy to save me, he was simply being an ass withholding his all powerful omnipotent healz. I lived or died at his hand.

I had monked THK hundreds of times, (my fav mission) so I knew the mission really well, so for some jackass monk to purposely let me die really set me off.

If you're a monk, and you can keep your team alive, do so. Otherwise you're just being an arrogant ass.

Don Zardeone · Sep 28, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

No the trick is to call out which skills they are using if they're nub.

Or when they run out, you can just keep healing thel for ever, all the blue numbers should eventually get their attention.

When an assassin or something starts tanking like nuts, CALL OUT EVERY HEAL.
Once the assassin (or any other class) gets pissed because of you spamming the window, he'll probably say something. You can then counter it easily.

Or even better!
Don't pug.

Carth` · Sep 28, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

The blue numbers don't get their attention, and neither does calling out heals. Most of the idiots don't understand it, and that's why they do it.

I don't try anything psychological, I just tell them, "stop trying to tank ele", or "stop leaing the mobs back to us tank". I tell them again and again. There have only been a few times when the rest of the group has actually said to me, "don't heal him", because they were all sick of the idiot. But I couldn't let him die.

Ulivious The Reaper · Sep 28, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

To be honest.. i've played several hundred hours on my warrior in PUgs of all kinds.. ranging from Nolani academy mission to Uw.. and quite frankly i never relied on my monk to keep me alive.. if i ever ran low on health and needed a quick boost.. bam i'd hit dolyak bonettis and heal sig faster than i could click and say "my health is xxx of 520"

Now playing my monk.. oh boy i have so much fun screwing around wiht over extenders and total problem makers for my energy.. i for one just stand there.. saying if i have to move to heal you you're failing at your job (exlusion goes to warriors and assassins) as for batterys.. if i ever have one i don't bother healing them unless they really ask for it and we're mid battle, i mean they're my life line they have first pirority in battle.. but if they're just saccing themselves to death outside of battle.. oh wel

Mammoth · Sep 28, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

I play a monk the most out of all the characters I have, and I have done many fow runs as a monk.

Whenever somebody does something stupid, careless or 'heroic'. I come right out and tell them why I didn't heal them or let them die. I think I've been doing so since I started using a monk.
I haven't been argued on my healing abilities and choices on a run in a long time now, mainly because any time somebody tries to question me, I point out exactly what they did, why I didn't do anything about it, and why I will not do anything about it ever.

Unfortunately it's a little bit more controlling, but if some players over-extend or try to do everything themself, they need to know they wont be getting the support they might think they should be getting when the rest of the team, or myself could end up dying for their actions.

Essentially as a monk, I take care of the majority, not just one or two people, for the greater good of the team.

I suppose this is one reason why I get complimented so much on runs with my monk...

crimsonfilms · Sep 28, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I let people die all the time. My job is to keep the party alive not heal just one person. I really dont care if they overextend and Frenzy spam. They die they die.
If they complain, then I say heal yourself then.

Don't tell me what to do because I don't call targets for warriors and casters. Do your job and I will do mine.

Sekkira · Sep 28, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

I'll have to admit, when I play a monk I'm very blunt and condescending. I don't try to use this fancy psychology mumbo jumbo, I just tell the person they're an idiot and why. You could attribute this to me being an arrogant monk who thinks he's high and mighty, but then there's the point where I know I'm high and mighty compared to most of the team (there's always at least one decent person in my team who I'll bitch openly to).

Then there's the arrogance, which is just my nature and has been there long before I rolled a monk. However when I play a monk, I make it very clear that I'm damn good at what I do with my playstyle. So if you end up on my team, you can hate me all you want, but I'm still keeping you alive.

No, my arrogance and annoyance with people's personalities doesn't get in the way of my judgement for healing. I've failed too many quests/missions because some guy didn't like the other guy and everyone joined in then ragequit. If I don't like you as a person, I'll make it clear verbally, then continue on keeping you alive.

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 28, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

The attitude that the last 3 posters have gives monks a bad rep. You're implying you purposely let your teammates die, even though you could have kept them alive without any cost to the mission/quest or team. And that= bad monk. If you can, without risking the team or mission/quest -whatever, save your teammates.

You speak positively of being arrogant? Arrogance is a negative emotion. There is no way being arrogant can help you or your team.

EDIT: Sekkira- from what I can gather from your post, you verbally assault your team mates. I don't agree with your tactics, but apparently you keep your team alive. So at least this is better than the other two who willingly let their team members die to so-called teach them who's boss.

Paperfly · Sep 28, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

No the trick is to call out which skills they are using if they're nub.

I'll admit to succumbing to this temptation from time to time... When I'm asked why I called it I'll usually just play innocent. It's a bad habit, I know, but it does serve the purpose of letting the other experienced players in the group know how far we can rely on that player.

I try* to be as patient and gentle about noobishness as possible. I'm playing with a PuG for social reasons, after all - I'm quite confident in my ability to hench anything in the game - so there's no point to adding grief to incompetence.

My approach... Kinda depends on what it is they're doing wrong. "So-and-so, wait for the team, please" is usually enough to counter Leeroy syndrome - and they usually notice fairly quickly that I'm staying with the team and not risking them by rushing forwards to heal them. Sub-par skill usage I'll usually just let slide, though I'll sometimes try to offer positive suggestions ("you know, Minion Master, Heal Area is pretty much identical to Healing Breeze, except it'll heal your minions as well!").

...I think that sword-weilding Illusion mesmer (not an IW!) is still offended that I suggested he contaminate the purity of his degen build by putting Distortion on his skillbar, though. I mean, if someone wants to melee mobs in mesmer armour it's not the monk's job to force cookie-cutter sensibilities on them, right? Lack of build originality is ruining the game!

One thing I try to do (that kind of ties in with my first paragraph) is to get any other competent players in the group on-side. I don't mean that we ** together at the noobs, but rather that we work together to carry the team and compensate for others' mistakes. Obviously this requires that the other peeps be both competent and friendly, so I rarely find more than one per group!

*which means I've been known to fail!
**Edit: my original term here - a synonym of "chuckle" - got GOREDENGINE'd because if you remove the "s" from the front of it you get a racial slur. Can't think of another word with all the right connotations right now...

Rhys ap Llysgwr · Sep 28, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Once in fow I was with this pretty decent pug, except for this obnoxious necro that kept flaming ppl for the dumbest things. I was playing a bonder, using life barrier and bond. So we run into one of the early mobs that had a shadow mesmer, the mesmer did a shatter enchant on one of our peeps and this necro says "nice enchant noob, you just cost us 100", to which I repsonded "hey retard, I'm not dropping all the bonds for one shatter enchant".

He proceeded to flame me further, uttering things I shall not repeat here. So from that point on I kept everyone's bonds up but his. And guess what, he died 3 times before we cleared out ol' Shadow Lord Vorgis - at which point he raged. Good riddance and gg.

bele · Sep 28, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Passive-aggressive tactics ftl. Just be upfront with your teammates about your concerns.

QFT. Seems like , cause your'e the only healer, and there is another one btw in most of the times, you have the right to tell how others have to play. Just lame.

It's a PUG. grab another , or better, take guildies or hench. That last ones will follow each and every order of you without such "techniques".

i usually monk pug-s aswell,and yes, i know how damm hard can it be

some guy · Sep 28, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I'm making a monk tomorow, straight out of pre-sear. Monks often gets blamed a lot, even tho it's not their fault. Especially with tanking assassins and eles, some people are stupid enough to rush in when the monk pings his or her energy.

Roshi_ikkyu · Sep 28, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I've played a monk since the servers went live, in both PvE and PvP.

I find PvE harder, not because of the skills I carry or the different effects. But the players.
PvP players know when there going to die; from a certain spike or condition, and why they died when they've died!

In PvE I don't mind speaking my mind. I'll call energy when its low, mostly around the 5 points mark.

If I get a bad tank or a class that thinks there a tank when there not, A/Me :s I'm not afraid to let them die. Death is a powerful tool.
Yes this has often caused rage quits, But I don't mean the over extended tank. I mean the encounter 4 mobs tank, who then runs to the casters, kinda player. Death is there punishment!

If I get players bitching because they drop 1/5 of there health, I will often call my lamest skill as I cast it. and then explain: Its not even worth the energy points to heal there HP loss.

And for the mainly wammo groups and rangers thinking there melee attackers, I'll call ALL my skills I use on them. And if they fail to get the point, death soon follows.

But most of all if I get a group that full of Noobs doing the "ZOMG HEALS MEES" and calling for res in the middle of a mob.
I explain how bad the group is and how I don't need this, and map travel ftw.

cataphract · Sep 28, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphir

Then there are the tanks who run behind the monks to use their healing sig, or the ones who back up after initial aggro, then run in after the mobs have started targeting the squishies.
These tanks take a bit more verbal coaching, but often you have to buff them up psychologically by keeping their health at 90% and above so they don't break and run. Once you gain their trust that you're not going to let them die, you can more easily modify their behavior to be your parties point man, and intercept any incoming enemies.

As someone already said - team chat with "please don't aggro everything" and things like that helps. In most cases. When pugging into a high-lvl area such as FoW it helps to put up a demonstration of healing the tank. You know, like they do with Miracle Blade III on the shopping network cut a brick, marble and a soda can and then neatly slice up a tomato. If they keep breaking the aggro causing havoc in our lines I simply aggro the next group of baddies and tank them out. First reactions are "OMG WTF NOOB MONK" but I after I successfully tank for 30+ seconds they get the message. Warriors aggroing and retreating behind the squishies is the worst they can do. Right after breaking the aggro by retreating to the monk only to find out I don't have healing touch. By tanking a group of mobs I show the team that I can keep them alive too. I mean, if I can tank without Healing Seed on me, they sure as hell can tank with seed on them.

There are a few rules you can follow to help your monk:
1) do not aggro everything
2) do not break aggro once aggroed
3) do not retreat into the monk

There's a bonus rule for warriors: do not use frenzy while under SS.

Best thing about these rules is the fact that they are not RULES but common sense. That sometimes has to be pointed out to some people.

Brustow · Sep 28, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I've said this before in another thread...

It just comes down to the type of people you have in your party.. not the class. If you have people who are willing to communicate effectively, compromise, and adapt then the team will be successful. Players will be effective because they will but the team first and not have a narrow mindset that concentrates on themselves. It's not the class that's the problem in PUGS, it's the players themselves. Streotyping is irrelavent.

Jessyi · Sep 28, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Essentially, when forced, bribed, coerced or bored into PvE missions I monk like this:

I try to heal and protect everyone to the best of my ability, but I play it like PvP. I trust people to react to the damage they're taking and either they do or they don't. If they don't, too bad, they die. If they do, good for them, and they'll get their heals just as soon as I get around to it. That's what's "great" about PvE. Your enemies are in no hurry to kill/pressure/shut you down. They don't stick to targets or co-ordinate any sort of strategy. All you have to do as a non-monk player is take a few steps back and you'll be fine. Of course, if you're not big on self-preservation then you may or may not die (depending on how lucky you are/how much God likes you). It's none of my concern, really. What's the worst that can happen? You fail? At over 2700 hours, the 35 minutes wasted isn't a big concern to me.

However, if it's really important that we succeed (ie. I'm doing a mission that I desire never to repeat) then it's best to a) know what you're doing and b) inform your team of the best strategy. If you act like you know your ass from a hole in the ground, I find that 95% of the time people will listen and follow you. It's quite easy to be vocal; just a few keystrokes can save you a lot of outrage.

Overall, I'm not in this game to teach people a lesson. Either they "get it" or they don't, not that it matters because the chance that I'll ever play with them again is too miniscule to be statistically relevant. Besides, if I really want something done right, I won't pug to begin with. GG.

-Jessyi

cataphract · Sep 28, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brustow

Streotyping is irrelavent.

But fun, nonetheless.